Interview of Bob Dole on Vietnam, the Middle East, and Spiro Agnew

Transcription (Scripto)

Read Full Text Only (TXT)

Extent (Dublin Core)

19 Minutes, 31 Seconds

File Name (Dublin Core)

c031_077

Title (Dublin Core)

Interview of Bob Dole on Vietnam, the Middle East, and Spiro Agnew

Description (Dublin Core)

The following audio is an interview of Senator Robert Dole on the Channel 5 newsroom. The interview covers a wide range of both foreign and domestic topics. From what it means to be a representative, how the president can protect the American people, the crisis of the rural America, the Vietnam war, the Israel ceasefire, and Dole’s relationship with Vice President Spiro T. Agnew.

Date (Dublin Core)

1970-10-02

Date Created (Dublin Core)

1970-10-03

Congress (Dublin Core)

91st (1969-1971)

Topics (Dublin Core)

See all items with this value Vietnam War, 1961-1975

Policy Area (Curation)

Government Operations and Politics

Creator (Dublin Core)

Dole, Robert J., 1923-2021

Record Type (Dublin Core)

radio programs

Names (Dublin Core)

See all items with this value Agnew, Spiro T., 1918-1996

Rights (Dublin Core)

http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/CNE/1.0/

Language (Dublin Core)

eng

Collection Finding Aid (Dublin Core)

https://dolearchivecollections.ku.edu/index.php?p=collections/findingaid&id=84&q=

Physical Collection (Dublin Core)

Collection 031, Box 2

Institution (Dublin Core)

Robert J. Dole Institute of Politics, University of Kansas, Lawrence, KS

Archival Collection (Dublin Core)

Dole Audio Reels Collection, 1960-1979

Full Text (Extract Text)

(introduction music)

Interviewer John: Before introducing our next guest, here is a bulletin from the Channel 5 newsroom. The Associated Press reports that the United States is on the point of deciding whether to send chartered civilian airplanes to Amman in the immediate future. The planes would be sent to evacuate, possibly as many as 200 American citizens from war-torn Jordan. Informed sources say the decision is imminent, indicating that it will be reached by sometime tomorrow. Now, a week ago, we had on Panorama, one of the Nixon administration’s most vocal critics, Senator Mark Hatfield from Oregon, and this year, this month, this week, (laughter) right now, we're going to give the other side of the coin. And that is, if I can get to it, one of the administration's strongest supporters, Senator Robert Dole, Republican from Kansas and welcome Senator, to Panorama.

Senator Robert Dole: Thank you very much, John. Happy to be here.

Interviewer John: I'm just curious, what does this- you were with or were you with the President? He met with a number of congressmen yesterday. Did this come up at all?

Senator Robert Dole: I wasn't with the President. He met with the leadership, and I'm not part of the leadership, but it was discussed yesterday, yes.

Interviewer 2: That's to be debated, whether you're part of the leadership or not.

Senator Robert Dole: I’m not. (laughs)

Interviewer John: I was just going to say in 18 months in the Senate, you have made your presence felt, perhaps as no other senator has, but how do you interpret that? Had there been talk in Congress?

Senator Robert Dole: There has been considerable discussion. How do we protect the lives of Americans? And of course, there’s possibility that perhaps the airport is open at that point we could go in and go out without difficulty, but I do believe that we're near a point of decision, as the Bulletin suggests.

Interviewer 2: Well, that brings up the whole question of the Middle East. How do you feel about it?

Senator Robert Dole: Well I feel- I believe as most senators feel, it's a very- go back to the ceasefire that we hope might succeed with Israel and the Arab countries, particularly Egypt and Jordan. It's still very shaky. There's still some hope for it. I think Hussein can withstand the pressure and may succeed against the guerrillas. But of course, it- the big question, how should we become involved? We have 54 hostages there, including the pilot on the TWA plane, who happens to be a Kansan, one of my constituents, and we're directly interested, but above and beyond that there are some 400 other civilians there, Americans, and we have a responsibility to protect these people. This goes back to the whole debate on the Church Cooper Resolution. What power does the President have to protect Americans? He normally has the power; he has an obligation to do this, and so this becomes involved again. But I don't find many of the critics speaking out. They're waiting for the President to make a mistake. And then whichever way he goes will be the wrong way, of course.

Interviewer 2: Who are they?Who are the critics?

Senator Robert Dole: Well, I would guess that- McGovern has been quiet and the hopefuls on the other side, by and large, there are many hopefuls on the other side. I've only met a few Democrats who aren't hopeful.

Interviewer 3: Were you personally surprised by the recent guerrilla activities or did you see it as something inevitable?

Senator Robert Dole: No, I well, I- neither. I really didn't expect it. I didn't anticipate it, but I did know of course they were strongly opposed to any ceasefire. I have been on the West Bank, I have visited the refugee camps, and there's no doubt about it, this is something that the Community of Nations should have taken care of years and years ago. We've literally sown the seeds of the present difficulty, not only our country, but all the countries involved. Generation after generation are- live in refugee camps and tents. The living conditions are deplorable, so I think we must share some of the blame, along with other nations in the world, for permitting this to go on for some 20 years.

Interviewer 2: A moment ago, you used the word ‘hostage’ in reference to the Americans being held in Jordan. Yesterday before a joint session of Congress, former astronaut Frank Borman painted a picture. He's just returned from around the world, and you have been involved with the prisoner problem in Vietnam; the hopes of prisoner exchange, release, and so forth. And Mr. Borman painted a very brutal picture of what has happened over there, contrary to what some would like to think here in this country. And he used the phrase also that the North Vietnamese are holding our prisoners in Vietnam as ‘political hostages’ for bargaining at Paris. Would you concur?

Senator Robert Dole: There's no doubt about it. I think if we reflect on what Colonel Borman had to say, we recognize that some of these men have been prisoners three, four, and five years. They're really no military value. If they're repatriated, they'll never be any threat militarily. So why are they being held in the first place? I agree with Colonel Borman. They’re political hostages, they're the trump card that the enemy has in any negotiation. And some have been held as long as now, almost six years. In addition, I think there has been mistreatment, there's no doubt about it. They haven't lived up to the Geneva Accords. They haven't permitted repatriation of the wounded or communication with the families. They just haven't done anything that you would expect from any country with reference to humane treatment of prisoners. And I would guess, as we've learned from Lieutenant Frishman and Major Rowe and Sergeant Hegdahl and others. They were treated badly. And I'm certain when we have a release of American prisoners, we're going to find the story repeated time after time after time. And this is bad for North Vietnam, they don't want the world opinion turned against them, and I believe this is a secondary reason they're holding the prisoners.

Interviewer 3: Senator Dole, you've stated many times, in describing the role of a senator or of a congressman, that a senator should not allow his affiliation with other groups and organizations to override his behavior in the Senate. But is it not a fact that persons get elected to the Senate because they do strongly identify with certain causes and certain groups, and this is the mandate that their people have given them in putting them there?

Senator Robert Dole: I don't disagree with your statement. I think it may be in context with the so-called End the War Amendment Group, where for the first time senators publicly raised over half a million dollars to lobby their colleagues. I don't subscribe to this at all. But I do agree that we have an obligation to identify with people in our states and people outside our states. We have an obligation that extends beyond the borders of my state of Kansas. Yes, we have an obligation, a responsibility. This doesn't mean we become a delegate of this group or that group. We're a representative. And there's a broad difference between being a delegate for some special interest group in the Congress or being a representative of that group, or of the people in your state.

Interviewer 3: Well for example, I think when you were supporting one of the Farm Bill legislation pieces, you stated that it was a fact that people were migrating to the cities who were very poor, very uneducated, and so forth. And so consequently, we should look at the farm problem and see if we could work there. But what kind of hope does this give to the people who are in fact trapped in the inner cities when we continually, you know, refuse to pass legislation which will help education, housing and these sorts of things?

Senator Robert Dole: Well, I don't think we've refused to do that, but I think looking at it from the rural standpoint, I take my state of Kansas, where we have an exodus year after year, and North Dakota, where we have a decline of some twenty-some percent of the farm population. There's a constant out-migration. What we need- one thing we need in America is a rural development program which will keep the people on the farm and not complicate the problems in the cities. And perhaps even go further in attracting some people from the cities, whether it be the ghetto area, or wherever it might be, from the inner city, back to rural America, because many people living in the cities originate in rural areas. We're not backward, we're progressive. We understand the needs of our nation and we think perhaps that it's a great thing to live in some of the rural areas.

Interviewer John: Well, what about making the land available to them? Is there such a thing as cheap, low-cost land?

Senator Robert Dole: Well, if we continue there be very cheap low-cost land. What's happening now, let's face it, the land is being purchased by large landowners or fewer and fewer smaller farmers just can't make it. And when farm programs are phased out, as they may well be, another two or three years, there'll be more and more smaller farmers and we'll have more corporate farms to deal with. And this is bad for agriculture. It's bad for our states, it's bad for America because only 6% of the people live on farms, but we still have the best food bargain in America, of any country in the world. And I know agriculture in itself and farm legislation isn't very dramatic, it doesn't appeal to many people. It doesn't have the excitement of, say, a Foreign Affairs Committee or foreign affairs matters. But it's very important to America, not just the farmer, but to those who live in the city, as well.

Interviewer John: What about all the federally owned lands? That's a sizable amount isn’t it?

Senator Robert Dole: Yes, I'm not certain how much, but some states, take Utah and Wyoming and states like Colorado, a large portion is federally owned and we don't have much federally owned land in Kansas.

Interviewer John: Would you advocate opening up federal lands?

Senator Robert Dole: Well, I'd advocate most anything that might attract people to rural America. We have the space, we have the schools we have, we think fair-minded people willing and ready and willing and eager to accept the people from other areas where it's crowded, where the living conditions are poor. But first we must find, in addition to agricultural pursuits, other job opportunities, because farmers just can't make it on the farm anymore, all farmers.

Interviewer 2: I was wondering, Senator, before we break for commercial, maybe you can think about it and talk about Vietnam, (background music fades in) some other areas which you have talked about in what people call a militant way and militant meaning that you are probably the staunchest support of the President's policy in Vietnam as we have in the Senate. So why don't we think about that?

Interviewer John: Our guest is Senator Robert Dole, Republican of Kansas, we'll be back right after these words.

(music)
(…)
(music)

Interviewer John: Our guest is Senator Robert Dole, Republican of Kansas. His opponents in the senior chamber often referred to him as being one of the roughest four men in the Senate. They often sometimes say he's a cut and shoot man. I somehow don't get that impression sitting here talking with you, Senator.

Senator Robert Dole: I don't think we've done that. You never know.

Interviewer 2: Let me try to draw (laughter) if I can, Vice President of South Vietnam, Mr. Ky is coming to this country. You came out the other day and you- in effect- I got the fact- feeling that you said stay home. Please stay home. Don't come.

Senator Robert Dole: Right. I've said that almost daily. I can't believe that the Vice President- the Vietnam, South Vietnam, has any real business coming to America on October 3 and joining a March for Victory, and I don't say that the March for Victory people don’t have a right to march. I don't agree with Doctor McIntyre. But after all, Vice President Ky is the second highest ranking government official. Our country has made great sacrifices for his country, a President Nixon's policy is one of disengagement, McIntyre’s is one of total victory. I think it would be an affront to the President and would certainly do no service to our country or his for him to be here. Now, I'm not naive. I think Vice President Ky has presidential ambitions. It may get him some mileage in Saigon to march with the militants that those who say total military victory in Washington DC, but that isn't my point. My point is that we've made great sacrifices for the country of South Vietnam. And the least vice President Ky could do is to make a small political sacrifice, at this time.

Interviewer 1: You don't think-

Interviewer 2: But in turn, he says he all he wants to do is explain why South Vietnam is fighting.

Senator Robert Dole: Well I- we've explained that quite often on the Senate floor and we've done it without his assistance. But I really believe there may be some. Political by play, going on that we may- this may be a good forum for Vice President Ky.

Interviewer 1: Don't you think, Senator, that if the President's policy of disengagement happens, we are turning the South Vietnam over to Vice President Ky and President Thieu, that government? Don't you think that the American people should know what we're turning the country over to?

Senator Robert Dole: Right. I think as soon as the last Americans gone that Ky should come over and tell us how he's going to do it. But while we are still present there and we're still sacrificing young men, it's much like sending Vice President Agnew to Saigon to visit with the Buddhists, because they don't agree with Thieu and Ky. And that might be a good exchange to send Agnew to Saigon on that day and have Ky come over here. I'm certain they would resent that. They wouldn't want it to happen. And I think if Ky reflects, well, he may decide not to come.

Interviewer 1: You brought up an interesting personality, Vice President Agnew.

(laughter)

Senator Robert Dole: Agnew, I've heard of him, yeah.

Interviewer: I was wondering- and you truly are a President's man in the Senate and really have defended him very well on the floor-

Senator Robert Dole: I’ve advocated his policies.

Interviewer: Yes, you have. And I was wondering if at any time the Vice President has embarrassed you with what he has said around the country? Has he ever contradicted something that you've tried to put out by the President? Because there are always stories going around that the Vice President only enunciates what the President wants him to.

Senator Robert Dole: Right, Well, I was very active in the Church Cooper debate. I voted for the Church Cooper amendment.

Interviewer: In it’s final form?

Senator Robert Dole: In its final form, I understand the Vice President indicated we were filibustering and being a freshman, I didn't recognize that's what we were engaged in. But it did take seven weeks, but I voted for it. The Vice President, of course, says it was a mistake. I don't believe so. But I don't quarrel with that with the Vice President. Because he disagrees with me. He disagrees with others and this is his right.

Interviewer: I was wondering. I was wondering- we're running out of time, but you lost your plaque this year, apparently from the Conservative Organization for Constitutional Action. I can't remember the exact name of it. I was wondering if you're now up for consideration for the Americans for Democratic Action on the liberal side of the aisle now.

Senator Robert Dole: I don't think I would ever qualify for one of those, but I have had fun with my conservative friends. I don't know whether labels really mean anything. I hope we never get in a category we can't move from and move out of from time to time, but I have the very liberal voting record in some areas, in the field of civil rights, for example, and very conservative when it comes to economic matters, I vote to sustain presidential vetoes and things of this kind. But above all, I think basically I've been such a strong supporter of the President because he's getting us out of the war in South Vietnam and I've had some experience in war and want to get out as badly as anyone.

Interviewer 3: I'm listening, Senator Dole. And of course I, you know, cannot question the sincerity at all of your statements, because I must admit that I admire your record, especially having been in the Senate for such a short time. A few moments ago, Morrie asked you something about Mr. Agnew and you responded in terms of a direct contact with a voting position you had taken, but with respect to many of the statements he's made regarding young people in the country, do you feel that this enhances the position of Mr. Nixon, which you see to be so vital to our country's survival?

Senator Robert Dole: I think it enhances our possibilities of capturing the Senate. That's the name of the game this year in politics, is who will control the Senate, come next year. We had a real opportunity, and I think this is Agnew's mission to try to gain control of the Senate. I'll be frank-

Interviewer 3: At the expense of what?

Senator Robert Dole: At the expense of some of the liberals who are now occupying seats. But I must admit that I sometimes have to run to my dictionary to find out for certain just what Agnew said. But so, it does keep us informed, and-

Interviewer: But don't you think that you may win the Senate at the expense maybe of some bloodletting, and I don't mean political bloodletting, I mean physical bloodletting. I mean, there are people who say and accuse the Vice President- happened the other day- of being a precursor of violence, they believe this.

Senator Robert Dole: And I don't see the Vice President in that light. I see the Vice President with a mission to sidetrack some of the liberals who now occupy a position, the responsible in the Senate. And I'm certain that the liberals are out trying to sidetrack conservatives, and I assume you could find statements made by both sides that would offend the sensibilities of some people. But I would guess and believe the Vice President has been responsible 99 times out of 100 in the statements he's made. I don't agree with everything he says. He hasn't been in my state of Kansas. We'd very much like to have him come to Kansas. Other states, I understand Goodell can probably get along without him this year, but in any event. People sometimes are disturbed until the next morning after the fundraising rally, they start counting the money. And then they write off the trip as a great success, because he does appeal to many Americans, and I think he may help us gain that magic number of seven. A net gain of seven means that we'll have a whole new TV series next year in America. Instead of Fulbright, you'll have Aiken on television, that’d be an improvement.

Announcer: (laughter) With those words, Senator Dole, I thank you very much for joining us today on Panorama. Our guest Senator Robert Dole, Republican from Kansas. We'll be back in just a moment, I have some music for you, right after these words.

(music)

Interview of Bob Dole on Vietnam, the Middle East, and Spiro Agnew

Item