Interview of Bob Dole on the 1972 Presidential Election

Transcription (Scripto)

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Extent (Dublin Core)

23 Minutes, 44 Seconds

File Name (Dublin Core)

c031_071

Title (Dublin Core)

Interview of Bob Dole on the 1972 Presidential Election

Description (Dublin Core)

In this interview, Senator Dole discusses the upcoming 1972 presidential election with an interviewer. They discuss several topics, including Nixon’s chances at another win and his strategies, the strategies of Republicans including their relations with young voters and the press, and the potential Democratic Party’s candidates for presidency, such as Ted Kennedy.

Date (Dublin Core)

1971-05-07

Date Created (Dublin Core)

1971-05-08

Congress (Dublin Core)

92nd (1971-1973)

Topics (Dublin Core)

See all items with this value Presidential candidates

Policy Area (Curation)

Government Operations and Politics

Creator (Dublin Core)

Dole, Robert J., 1923-2021

Record Type (Dublin Core)

radio programs

Names (Dublin Core)

See all items with this value Nixon, Richard M. (Richard Milhous), 1913-1994

See all items with this value Kennedy, Edward M. (Edward Moore), 1932-2009

Rights (Dublin Core)

http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/CNE/1.0/

Language (Dublin Core)

eng

Collection Finding Aid (Dublin Core)

https://dolearchivecollections.ku.edu/index.php?p=collections/findingaid&id=84&q=

Physical Collection (Dublin Core)

Collection 031, Box 2

Institution (Dublin Core)

Robert J. Dole Institute of Politics, University of Kansas, Lawrence, KS

Archival Collection (Dublin Core)

Dole Audio Reels Collection, 1960-1979

Full Text (Extract Text)

Summary:
In this interview, Senator Dole discusses the upcoming 1972 presidential election with an interviewer. They discuss several topics, including Nixon’s chances at another win and his strategies, the strategies of Republicans including their relations with young voters and the press, and the potential Democratic Party’s candidates for presidency, such as Ted Kennedy.

Full contents:
Unnamed man:
(inaudible)
Okay.
(inaudible)
Yeah, good and straight. Alright?

Bob Dole:
Yeah.

Interviewer:
Senator, part of the problem, I think last time was the Vice President spent a lot of his time not talking about the things that the Nixon administration had done. Is there any way to avoid a repeat of that next time around?

Bob Dole:
Well, I think much depends on just what happens the next 12 months. I mean, I think many people who are very concerned now– politics is in the air. The Presidential Derby is underway, particularly on the Democrat side, where they have 7 or 8 or 9 candidates. Many Republicans and Nixon supporters who may not be Republicans, are concerned about the war and the economy and should be, not in a political way, but just as Americans. And there’s a tendency to forget that the election is still a long way off. But I think one area where we maybe didn’t make a mistake, but I think we failed to emphasize the greatest single achievement of this administration in the ‘70 election, or up to that time, was the winding down of the war in southeast Asia. I think too much time was spent on law and order and other issues which are highly important, but I think most Americans, at that time and still do, give Nixon great credit for finding a war on his doorstep when he became president and almost immediately changing the direction of that war and winding it down and cutting down the casualties and cutting down the number of troops almost by 50%. And I think most people believe and know that the President is going to end this war and I think he’s going to end it much quicker than many of his critics believe.

Interviewer:
Well, do you think that, actually, policy decisions will be made, or at least will you try to influence them to be made to spend the time talking about the things you’re mentioning and purposefully and flatly to say, ‘We’re not going to waste our time too much of it on the attack?’

Bob Dole:
Yeah, well, it’s– in any campaign, of course, it’s easier to attack, and sometimes people vote to for you because of a negative, not a positive. But I’ve heard the President say, and the– well, the most recent Cabinet meeting I attended that we’re going to win in ‘72 because we’re for something. And he didn’t say that he would be the candidate. I’m not suggesting he’s not, but he’s just saying that he feels this is going to be the atmosphere that the party who wins in 1972 is the party who’s going to be for something. Well, if we look at the President Nixon’s record, his start, at least in draft reform, the complete– the reform in the Postal Service by a Republican, his suggestions for welfare reform and for revenue sharing and for government reorganization, these are positive programs. Now, if you add to this the ending of a war, and if you wind up the– wind down the war and wind up the economy, in addition to the other things I’ve mentioned, he’s going to be able, if he’s the candidate, to carry on a very positive, aggressive campaign. There’s some who say, ‘Well, you can’t win this way,’ ‘You’ve got to be out on the attack,’ and ‘You’ve got to be against something.’ But I think the American people will give the President the credit he deserves, regardless of their party -- not all of them, but the majority of them -- if he successfully ends the war, and if he successfully revives the economy.

Interviewer:
Senator, you’ve been carrying much of the so-called ‘attack’ yourself the last few months. Is this an effort to take some of the heat and some of the thunder away from the Vice President? And is this a role that you might exercise all the way into next year’s campaign? Or is it something that just has to be done now?

Bob Dole:
I don’t look at it in that way. I’m not a ‘hatchet man’, but I think I have some obligation as a Republican, as the Chairman of the Republican Party, to at least answer the charges made by the Democrats. And of course, there are there are many Democrats and they’re good men, they’re running for the presidency. And they have a right to do this, and I don’t quarrel with them. I know them all, and I may question their judgment, I may question their motives from time to time, but I don’t question their integrity and their right to want to be President. But if I think that they’ve made some statement or some exaggeration, some unjust criticism of the administration then at least the Chairman should speak up, and hopefully other Republican senators and House members and leaders across the country. Now the Vice President is very busy. He’s sort of the number 1 salesman this year for the domestic programs, and he’s been traveling the length and breadth of this nation talking to county commissioners, city officials, governors, business leaders, labor leaders about domestic programs. This is a role he has for 1971. So, there’s no effort here to upstage the Vice President, I think it’s just an effort that must be made by the Chairman, and it just happens that I’m the Chairman.

Interviewer:
Are you making some efforts in the party organization to broaden its base and– such as in the area of the young people. What are you doing to attract your share of those 18- to 21-year-olds next year?

Bob Dole:
Of course, this is the most difficult area, and really it ought to be just reversed because of the great record the President has made in the war in Vietnam, but I have a daughter who’s 16. She’ll be 18 in ’72, and be voting. And, of course, she doesn’t recall– she was only 7 when Nixon left the office of the Vice President. She doesn’t remember it, at that tender age, that there weren’t any American casualties in South Vietnam. She doesn’t remember, in 1963, that it was President Kennedy who sent the first combat troops to South Vietnam, because she was only 9. She was only 10 when the Congress voted almost– well, almost unanimously to pass the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, submitted by President Johnson, which was, in effect, a declaration of war. And she doesn’t remember that Muskie voted for that, McGovern voted for that, and Humphrey voted for that, and Kennedy voted for that, and Bayh voted for that, and all these great critics of the war now, initially, supported it very strongly. And President Nixon wasn’t even on the scene, he was in private practice. And she doesn’t remember that the bombing of the North started in ’65 because she was only 11, and so forth. But now if the war is still continuing, here’s a young voter. I use her just as an example. She looks around, and she sees that maybe there’s still some trace of the war in South Vietnam. Who do you blame? If you don’t know the facts that happened 7 or 8 or 9 years ago, you look at the man in the White House, or whoever he may be in authority, and you say, ‘Well it must be his fault.’ So we’ve got– the point being that we’ve got a tremendous job to do in our party to put all these issues in their proper perspective. I think most young people will be issue-oriented. Let’s face it, President Nixon is not a glamour candidate. He doesn’t have the appeal that others might have in either party, insofar as just coming on television and some fancy rhetoric that somebody might like to hear. But he has a solid record of achievement, domestically, and particularly in foreign affairs. That the break with Red China, as small as it was, is an indication that this is a quiet diplomacy at work by this administration. If the war has ended in South Vietnam, this is– must be a plus for America, not for Nixon, but for America. And if we can maintain peace in the Mideast, if you look at these 3 areas, just these 3 areas, it’s a strong endorsement of any president, whether it was Nixon or a Democrat. But it’s tough, and so we’re gearing up for the National Committee. We know that most young people are opposed to the war, and they should be, they have to fight the war. I probably felt the same way, but we’re going to go after our share of the vote. This is Anne Armstrong, who’s my Co-chairman, the Republican National Committee is charged with this responsibility. She’s meeting with young people all across the country. We’re trying to find out just what we can do, first of all, so they will listen to what the Republicans say, and secondly, to be attracted to our party. There’s no magic formula. Young people are intelligent. They don’t want to be segregated. They want to be treated as full partners in the process. They don’t want somebody to come out and make some pitch ‘That I’m going to talk to you now because you’re young and we want the young vote.’ They’re full partners now in the electoral process, and they want to be treated as partners, not just as some special group.

Interviewer:
You’ve touched, Senator, on another area that I think you mentioned before, that there should be some effort made to show the human side, the warmer side, of the President. And he has made additional radio and television appearances lately–

Bob Dole:
Right.

Interviewer:
–that allow the reporters to get into a little more how he feels–

Bob Dole:
Right.

Interviewer:
–about things. But what else can you do to start him off afresh, say–

Bob Dole:
Yeah.

Interviewer:
–right now in terms of the next election, not as a man who has all the blessings and curses of whatever he’s–

Bob Dole:
Right.

Interviewer:
–done in the past, but rather as a man who can be accepted as a human being. What else can you do to show us that side of him?

Bob Dole:
Well, I think first, if he does what he’s said he would do, even before the campaign, and I made a speech just a few days ago in Kansas City, Missouri, where I talked about “Nixon, the consistent man.” Because there are those who say that, ‘Well, the President, he’s a politician, he does everything for the sake of expediency.’ And I pointed out some statements he made long before the election in ’68 that he’s stuck to and that he’s carried out and that indicates that, ‘Here’s a man of consistency.’ And we’re going to keep using this theme, that, ‘This is a statement made by the President long before the election.’ In addition, the President will be– will be more visible, but if– but if he’s demonstrated to the American people, and I know there’s some who are going to hate Nixon forever, there’re some who hate Humphrey forever, let’s face it, there’s just some people who don’t like a certain man because he’s in a certain party or the way he looks. So, you don’t try to change the man, you try to demonstrate that, ‘Here was a man who was elected. He demonstrated his capacity for leadership. And he is a human being.’ And I think one way you do this is get out with the people. And the president’s going to be doing a lot of this, as much as he can. He likes people. And I’ve had– I remember when, I think it was in ‘69, they had the meeting of the Handicapped Americans or Handicapped meeting here, and a number of very seriously physically handicapped people went to the White House. And one man said he just couldn’t believe the warmth of President Nixon, because he’d heard all this stuff before that, ‘He’s cold,’ ‘He doesn’t care about people,’ and he came back with a glowing report. And I don’t know what his politics were, didn’t ask him. But Nixon is genuine and he’s a fine man and he has a fine family and they brought great honor to the White House and the country. But you demonstrate this by getting out with the people. Let the people size you up, but above all you’ve got to have some program and some– you must have demonstrated to these people, young or old, Black or White, rich or poor, that you have a capacity for leadership. And this I think the President’s demonstrated.

Interviewer:
You have a problem, probably, don’t you? Anyone in your position, of handling 2 perhaps contradictory jobs? You must answer what you regard as the unfair or very partisan political attack, and yet you must also try, as you say, that with the young people especially, to address the issues and to talk on very calm reasons–

Bob Dole:
Right.

Interviewer:
–(inaudible) on those. Is that just a contradiction or a ‘double-hat’ that you have to live with, because you do seem to be doing both?

Bob Dole:
No, we’ve talked with a number of young people and groups and– but, unfortunately, many of the campus leaders and the college presidents somehow shy away from Republican speakers who are not invited to address many college campuses. And when we do, unfortunately, not many students appear because they are fearful that we’re going to say something they don’t want to hear, I assume. But if you send some left-leaning liberal to the campus, they jam the galleries. And if you do like Senator McGovern did in Berkeley just last night and you say, ‘You’re not going to draft anybody under 30 and you’re going to make the President and members of Congress serve in the front lines,’ the students jump up and down. Well, of course this is irresponsible– completely irresponsible talk from a man who wants to be President. I just can’t believe that a man who is serious about being President would make these statements, because he made some others that were almost as bad. But on the other hand, many young people, once you get up and speak your mind, they may not agree with you. And I don’t mean you get up and you attack every Democrat or you set up and simply defend President Nixon. And our best procedure has been to speak briefly to the students and have a question-and-answer session. How you– you can’t communicate by just standing up and talking for 30 minutes and saying, ‘Thank you very much,’ and leave. If you talk 10 minutes and have questions for 30 or 40 minutes, the students may not benefit, but I’ve learned from that experience what I might use at the next college campus or the next group of young people. So I don’t really see anything contradictory. I guess the point I make it’s– I know they don’t agree everything Nixon’s done. I know young people don’t get too excited about revenue sharing or welfare reform, even though they proclaim a great interest in the plight of the poor. And I would guess many aren’t excited because it’s Nixon’s program. You know, it’s a problem we must face, and it’s tough to overcome in some areas. Had it been advocated by some Democrat liberal, well they’d probably be demonstrating in the streets for welfare reform in Washington, but it wasn’t, it was by a Republican. It was by Richard Nixon, and therefore many young people just don’t believe.

Interviewer:
Senator, regardless of whether the press does or doesn’t give the Republican Party a fair shake, and I know you and the Vice President, and the President to a lesser degree, maybe have had some criticism of the press. Isn’t there still a danger in that criticism itself though, that after a time it can get to the point where it looks like the press, well, fairly or unfairly, is being used as a scapegoat, and it’s kind of like blaming the other guy too often, even though the other guy may be to blame.

Bob Dole:
Right.

Interviewer:
Now, don’t you run that risk?

Bob Dole:
Oh, I think so. In fact, I don’t intend to become any– make the press, the media, written or otherwise, electronic, a ‘whipping boy’ for the Republican Party or for any point of view I may have. And I’ve told the people at the National Committee that we want specific criticism. I don’t think it’s fair to stand up and blast any network or any newspaper or any publication unless you have specific charges to make. And so we’ve tried to limit ourselves to specifics, and I frankly think the Republicans must share some of the blame. I don’t blame the networks or any other form of media for not reporting our view if we don’t say anything. Or if we say it in the quiet of our office or if we put out some press release blasting the media. So I guess the point I’m making– we must demonstrate first a willingness to speak up, and if we speak up on the issues, whether we agree or disagree with the President or agree or disagree with someone else, and if we do this frequently and are ignored by the press, then we have a right to criticize. On the fear that there should be some balance. But if we do nothing, we have no right at all to criticize. And– but I would also add, that those who’ve been critical of press have really been, and I’m talking about the electronic media now, have been their real friends in the Congress. And I’m not suggesting that means they should embrace us, but we had the Campaign Spending Bill up, for example, which said in effect that, well, ‘You can only spend so many dollars on radio and television, but you can spend all the money you want for newspaper ads and balloons and direct mail.’ Some of us, myself included, voted to sustain the President’s veto, because we were singling out one industry, television and radio, the electronic media, for special treatment, which was punitive. Now this doesn’t mean they owe us any favors, but on the other hand, I would say to them that we’re not against the press, we’re not against the electronic media. We feel we have a story to tell. We hope that it’s heard from time to time and I’m certainly not going to make it a crusade. I have great respect for the people who report the news, even those I don’t agree with. I’ve never had any, with one exception, had any dealings anyone where I thought his bias was so complete that we couldn’t communicate.

Interviewer:
Do you think, Senator, it’s proper posture for the press to be generally critical of all public officials, or at least skeptical? Should we not, as part of our function, look at government and say, could something be done better or is something not being–

Bob Dole:
Oh, right.

Interviewer:
–done here that should? Maybe we have a built-in criticism that belonged there?

Bob Dole:
Well, I agree. It would be a rather dull program if you went on a program and you’re asked– let’s say you went on some network program or one of your programs, and the first question was, from the panel, ‘Isn’t President Nixon doing a great job?’ And for 30 minutes, or an hour, you sat there and praised the President. It would be a dull program. No one would listen, I wouldn’t like it, the President wouldn’t like it, and the panel would go to sleep. So, it must be interesting, it must be provocative, it must be controversial sometimes. There must be disagreements. And I certainly, I commend the newsman who’s digging at you in a proper way and making you answer the tough questions, because if you’re not prepared to answer the tough questions, you shouldn’t be on the program in any event. And I tend to be very candid, and sometimes I say things that I imagine cause a few trembles in the White House, not with the President, but some who surround him. But I think one thing we have to be with the American public is honest and candid where we can. And if we’ve got problems in our party, I’m going to mention those problems. And if the things I think we should do in the party, I’m going to say those things, and if it touches some Republican nerve, it’s going to touch some Republican nerve.

Interviewer:
I have just one other area, I promised it wouldn’t be too long. I’ll talk about the Democrats a little bit if we can. Monday, your indication that recently Hubert Humphrey looked like he would get the nomination if Edward Kennedy stays out. Is this wishful thinking, Senator? Or is this really what you or the party thinks is going to happen?

Bob Dole:
Well, I’ve had– Senator Humphrey and I are– have become friends. I didn’t serve with him before, but I say very seriously, when a man only loses the presidency by a ½ million votes, he’s got to be a serious contender, he’s got a lot of support. You only have to look at Nixon, who lost by 100 and some thousand, and later became president. He had a base of support. Humphrey’s got a broad base of support. He’s been needling me, he said, ‘Oh, you’re promoting me around the country because you think I’m the easiest to beat.’ But that isn’t the case. I think he does appeal to a great many Americans. I think he has some great qualities, and I say very frankly he’s a good man in many ways. I don’t want him to be President, but I don’t quarrel with him for wanting to be President. So, I think he’s in a good position if he just sort of plays a waiting game, which he’s doing. Muskie may be pacing himself, but I think it’s fairly evident that he hasn’t caught fire. He’s not another Abraham Lincoln, and he’s having trouble getting up in the polls. In fact, he’s slipping in the polls. But, I still think that Teddy Kennedy is very much a candidate. He’s traveling around the country with his medicine show and he’s saying a lot of things, being very critical of the administration on almost everything. I just can’t believe that all this isn’t in anticipation that there may be a complete collapse of the other candidates, and there may be a draft or some movement to get Teddy Kennedy into the race.

Interviewer:
Well, you do describe yourself as a candid man. Candidly, who would be the most difficult man for Richard Nixon to beat if the election were held tomorrow, let’s say?

Bob Dole:
Yeah, I think we if we talk about it in terms of today, I think a ticket of Humphrey and Jackson, say, or some combination, would be the toughest to beat.

Interviewer:
Because you–

Bob Dole:
I don’t underestimate the Kennedy charisma, the Kennedy emotion, the Kennedy family, or the legacy of the Kennedy brothers. And so you can’t– if he’s on the ticket, it’s going to make it tough. And I don’t think he’d accept a second spot, so I assume– but on the other hand, I think Humphrey still has strong labor support. He’s carrying on a very vigorous program in the Senate. But of course, this is something they have to determine, and that the Republican chairman should not concern himself with. We know they’re going to have a candidate. We’d like to have a ticket at McGovern for President and McGovern for Vice President. We can’t put that together, so we don’t worry about those things, except we try to keep tabs on all of them when they criticize the President. We have a file, and we do research, we try to be responsible. We’re going to make mistakes, we’re going to be justly criticized. We don’t want to become a gadfly, and we can’t kick every sleeping dog and answer every charge made. But I would guess Larry O’Brien would agree that the chairman of his party has some responsibilities and one of those is to at least speak out for his party and speak out for the leadership.

Interviewer:
You do that very articulately.

Dole Audio Reels Collection, 1960-1979
Series 3: Interviews and Other Radio Appearances, 1963-1979
Item 71: Interview of Bob Dole on the 1972 Presidential Election, 5/7/1971
Filename: c031_071, Length: 0:23:44